Banned for damaging team vehicle, after my squad was TK'd

[Porick]

Tank squad deliberately killed half my squad (including myself) as we were laying several C4's on an enemy Main Battle Tank.

Tank squad Killed us by shooting at the tank because they wanted the points, (of blowing up an empty tank). They were 20 metres away and were warned of (and could clearly see) our activity.

This resulted in no ban or kick for Tank squad.

We put c4 on the back of their battle tank (Which about 15 people were shooting rifles at to communicate irritation, and boredom at the end of the round) I was kicked and banned for "Excessive team killing" I killed nobody, only causing minor damage to the tank.

Why was I banned.

EDIT:

Beirut, approx 21:10 GMT

[Liam]

Hi Porick,

I was the tank gunner, so I guess that admins would like both sides of the story.

Tank squad deliberately killed half my squad (including myself) as we were laying several C4's on an enemy Main Battle Tank.

I could of course be wrong, but I believe I killed two friendlies(I only saw two TK messages).
I did not intend to TK; I aimed for the top of the enemy tank with ATGM, but the spiral caused it to hit the right. Granted it wasn't ideal, but I was less than impressed having been shouting at people in mumble and on teamchat to move as I was going to fire ATGM. My reasoning, as both me and my driver were saying, was that a tank is significantly faster than a breacher spamming C4s. We were only told of one -- "our breacher" -- operating on the tank.

In hindsight I should have simply hit the top of the tank with AP instead of ATGM, so I'm sorry for that. Your extremely agressive response on mumble didn't really prompt me to apologise.

Tank squad Killed us by shooting at the tank because they wanted the points, (of blowing up an empty tank). They were 20 metres away and were warned of (and could clearly see) our activity.

This goes both ways. A tank has obviously superior anti-tank capabilities to C4. You were also warned of (and could clearly see) our activity. Neither of us is in the right here.

We put c4 on the back of their battle tank (Which about 15 people were shooting rifles at to communicate irritation, and boredom at the end of the round) I was kicked and banned for "Excessive team killing" I killed nobody, only causing minor damage to the tank.

This is incorrect. You placed enough C4 on the tank to have it on fire, and the blast teamkilled [3dAC] WeeD-KilleR.

Apologies for teamkilling.
Liam.

[ELmariachi]

Liam there is no need to explain yourself.. Teamkills happen.

I make it short

C4 on Friendly Mainbattle Tank = Griefing
Selfjustice = against the rules
second ban within 36 days = unban denied

http://newcommunity.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3530

[MrSherenai]

Second your decision machi but i dont think that liam's tk was okay in terms of accidential tk. If the tank was unmanned and there was no risk of the enemy getting it back within 30 seconds not shooting it would have been the better decision as he was seeing friendly units at the tank and shooting it would lead to a high risk of tk. You willingly risked a few tks because you always have the chance not to shoot if they dont fall back after you announce your plan to shoot the tank. Depending on the situation this collateral damage may be okay, i would always risk a few tks in a situation were it is important to destroy valuable enemy assets asap. On the other side they should have let you destroy it anyway...why waste a few minutes with c4 if one atgm needs 3 seconds. So as you said, both of you made a wrong decision here in my opinion.

[Porick]

How deliberately killing team mates in a non combat area is NOT griefing, but damaging a tank is. I have no idea.

The Admins on this server are ludicrously ban-happy. Since when does ONE TK get anyone banned? but 2-3 Doesn't.

When an admins panties are in a bunch, thats when.

Also, as for "Liam" talking about my "extremely aggressive response", he fails to mention that "Extremely aggressive response" was me asking "Why the fuck did you TK my squad" to which he replied somthing about a breacher being unsuitable, despite the fact we had a breacher and an engineer kit.

We were there before the tank, and the tank squad simply wanted to steal points and TK, because of their admin privileges. No amount of niceties will change that.

[MrSherenai]

Its planting c4 on a friendly tank that got you banned. Its griefing and intentional, you did it to destroy your own tank on purpose. Thats on a whole different level compared to normal tk which is caused by someone getting a certain situation wrong. (Communication failed, not abled to id someone as friendly, etc.). I wasnt playing and after reading yours and liams posts i would second that liams tk was not okay neither but i would belive him that he got the situation wrong and in his opinion it was urgent to destroy the tank asap. In addition you have already been banned for INTENTIONAL tk just a month ago. We are actually very carefull when it comes to bans and give everyone a second chance. You got yours and still you choose to walk the line again. This cant be blamed on our admins, it was your decision to grief and you have to face the consequences. That you have been tkd does not make a difference in your case, self justice and griefing is alway against the rules on our server.

[Porick]

So just to be clear.

100% intentional firing AT a full squad C4ing a tank = A-ok

Putting one c4 on a tank to shit them up a bit, 1 accidental TK as a result, at the end of the match = Instant ban.

Either ban both or none of us. But of course that would never happen, because you wouldn't ban one of your own, because your own admin was complicit.

This is in no way a bannable offense, nor is it even especially "Walking the line". Your failure to take any action against Liam shows this in abundance.

[Liam]

I am not an admin, nor am I a member of any community associated with the server.
If they want to discipline me for it, I'm okay with that. I made a number of bad calls, teamkilling 2(?) friendlies when it could have been avoided.

If the situation had been reversed, I'd be mad, but I wouldn't greif in reprisal. We've all been there.

[manuel1101]

So just to be clear.

100% intentional firing AT a full squad C4ing a tank = A-ok

Putting one c4 on a tank to shit them up a bit, 1 accidental TK as a result, at the end of the match = Instant ban.

Either ban both or none of us. But of course that would never happen, because you wouldn't ban one of your own, because your own admin was complicit.

This is in no way a bannable offense, nor is it even especially "Walking the line". Your failure to take any action against Liam shows this in abundance.

TO BE CLEAR

Lima tk'ed you/Squad CULPA LEVIS

You damged/try to tk'ed him DOLUS

Huge differnce, hope you get it now.

grez Manuel

[MrSherenai]

Becaus we are starting to run in circles i will try to explain this once again and very detailed. It does not matter if liams tk was on purpose or not, you planted c4 on a friendly vehicle to destroy or damage it. That is considered griefing, and to repeat it once again, its always griefing no matter what happened before such behaviour is not acceptable. You should have learned from your last ban that we dont care when someone breaks the rules, start or end of the match does not make any difference at all. You are not even willing to accept that you violated a rule but try to blame it on liam. And i clearly stated above that liams tk was not okay if it was on purpose, he will have to face consequences too in that case. I can assure that i will investigate in this case, aka have a look at battle recorder. We never failed to admit that we are wrong and neither did we fear to punish our own community members or allys if they violated our ruleset. But either way, liams tk being intentional or not, your ban is not wrong as you violated our ruleset and have been banned for a similar violation a month ago. So all you can get out of this is your personal satisfaction, a unban will not happen. If you cant accept our rules you shouldnt have played on our server at all.