Insurgency & Balance Suggestions

[blackfish_]

When ever there are too many ppl of one clan it might be better to (stay) spread over both teams. Also clan member on our switchlist joining midround are expected to take a look at the general balance and to act if necessary.

INS INF please.

I'm with you on maps that feature CAS and/or are "asset heavy" for blufor, but assets can also shorten otherwise wearing down rounds because of their ticket value.

Black.

[B.Pronk]

Tonight I have been greatly disturbed by the way of acting by the NEW crew and their ally on the Project Reality server. This caused me to flame for the whole round, since from the beginning of the round it was clear that the Canadians would win.

Operation Archer - Alternative Lay Out

I have nothing against Archer, however the alternative lay out with 3 APCs for BLUFOR has been known as heavily lopsided towards the Candians since .95 . This lay-out has almost never been won and the APCs crew would always finish with a minimum of 50 kills at least. To counter this, the Taliban have SPG technicals and bombcars. However with a view range of 800-900 meters this weapon often renders ineffective against the faster APCs with thermal sights. The lack of cover prevents the usage of cover in order to get into effective range.

From the beginning of the round no real efforts were made to counter these APCs besides the regular LAT and HAT kit. The SPG squad I ran, I am familiar with this asset and I know how to use it properly (in most cases), was left alone for about 25 minutes. Leaving basically everything that could counter the APC back at main or alone waiting to be raped because of A) view distance thermals or C) both main exits being camped.

Exit Camping

After 15 minutes from the beginning until 50 minutes in both exits were almost camped constantly by either an APC or Infantry squad. I got engaged at B2KP4, A1KP3 (trying to leave from the hill and later using it to engage the infantry shooting us), E2, D2. Not only I suffered from it but half the team since a lot of vehicles got lost during the attempts to reinforce the cache area.

BLUFOR switching

According to NEW server admins 3rdAC requested to be switched to the Canadian side. At the meanwhile already [MIF], HeroS and regulars were on this side. Remember this side has every, everything in it's favor. Yet the admin team allowed this clan to switch to the Canadians. 3rdAC is a clan with very, very skilled players. Giving them the side with all the favors will be deciding the match before it is even played. The admin I spoke said that he could not know this. If you have any common sense, you know that on this lay-out there is no clan needed on BLUFOR to balance the teams.

3rdAC is free to request, however I feel like the administrators of the server have been ignoring the importance of a proper match over the needs of giving others a favor.

A compliment I want to give is to the admin whom kicked the [WGP] guys. They were BLUFOR switching as well, they got punished.

Next Map

While the Taliban team was getting raped, the administrators decided to put maps like Dovre, Beirut and Marlin in the vote. I was surprised by this. You basically don't give the guys who have been raped for a whole game by a well organized team a chance to have some fun as well. Fun in terms of raping a whole round, not fun in terms of playing music in a T-Building.

On this map, the enemy team would probably have not such a bad time. Even though [KSK] would switch that round, it was already kind of too late.

Mid-Round Balancing

The admins told me that balancing mid-round was impossible.

If a certain clan joins, you can also "force balance" them. Like you forced a Taliban team to be raped. You simply talk to them and say "hey, the whole Taliban team could use some more clan members and experience".

Yet the clans could keep playing on the Canadian side while other regulars were joining them to take advantage of the bad balancing.

Conclusion

The combination of a heavily lopsided map and especially lay-out (Standard or Infantry lay out would be less rape), a very experienced clan switching to BLUFOR and allowing the BLUFOR team to fight in the grey zone over the course than just less than an hour.

It is also a shame that the community which came up with the ideas to balance this game mode more out is doing things that are basically against the effort of this topic.

Yet after a small discussion on teamspeak, the admins believed that they had not made a mistake. I feel screwed over by this. They have made a mistake by combining little mistakes. The first one the lay-out and then all the other stuff. And by taking away any future opportunity to have a little payback by having a mapvote disallowing any Taliban player to have his little revenge.

I can write it on a letter, there will be a few to none cases where this would happen the other way around.

I hope the NEW admins now understand why I was so upset the whole round, by making mistakes they ruined the round. I and some others as well want to have a proper round on any game mode. However actions/decisions of various individuals are preventing it way to often.

I would like to see the suggestions in this topic to be enforced more, so games can finally be properly played and not be like a rapefest.

I am now going to look the footage back on a faulty website, since Youtube and his adult version doesn't allow rape of any kind.

Yours sincerely,

Pronck.

[Ranzpirat]

Tonight I have been greatly disturbed by the way of acting by the NEW crew and their ally on the Project Reality server. This caused me to flame for the whole round, since from the beginning of the round it was clear that the Canadians would win.

Thanks for finding your way to the forums.

As I already told you in TS I found in unacceptable that you kept on ranting in allchat after I told you repeatetly that a) we heard your complain and b) that discussions were made internaly.

ALL [NEW] Admins and [new] Members were playing alongside with you, on Taliban Side. We Lost because a hugeload of People kept on spawnin on unknown caches and the failure of RPG/SPG kills on that APC's.

While I also found the round to be unbalanced, the people in my Squad did not mind because we wanted to practise opfor playing on INS maps. Just because the enemy team is better OR the game will be lost it does not mean it is not playworthy IMHO.

Exit Camping
After 15 minutes from the beginning until 50 minutes in both exits were almost camped constantly by either an APC or Infantry squad.

100% agreement, that camping was totally bullshit and I was very upset about that too. After I pointed it out in allchat I was able to leave the mainbase for the rest of the round though, as well as the rest of my squad. I cant give an exact timer, but I think the mainbase was camped for a good 30 minutes.

BLUFOR switching
According to NEW server admins 3rdAC requested to be switched to the Canadian side.

Our Admins decided that no switching was necessery, the 3dac switch to Blue was talked through before the game started. I explained that 5 times on TS to you and quite a few times in allchat. Keep in mind, that I am no Admin (see the [new] for member and the [NEW]for admin)

Next Map

I'd like to point out that Beirut was a lot of fun and balanced imho. edit: just finished the round: 36 - 0 for the former Taliban team. Only KSK balanced (as we decided in the round before)

The admins told me that balancing mid-round was impossible.

I say again, I am no admin on NEW.

[B.Pronk]

Tonight I have been greatly disturbed by the way of acting by the NEW crew and their ally on the Project Reality server. This caused me to flame for the whole round, since from the beginning of the round it was clear that the Canadians would win.

Thanks for finding your way to the forums. I found it earlier, when things were actually quite more positive.

As I already told you in TS I found in unacceptable that you kept on ranting in all chat after I told you repeatedly that a) we heard your complain and b) that discussions were made internally.

ALL [NEW] Admins and [new] Members were playing alongside with you, on Taliban Side. We Lost because a hugeload of People kept on spawnin on unknown caches and the failure of RPG/SPG kills on that APC's.

While I also found the round to be unbalanced, the people in my Squad did not mind because we wanted to practise opfor playing on INS maps. Just because the enemy team is better OR the game will be lost it does not mean it is not playworthy IMHO.

Exit Camping
After 15 minutes from the beginning until 50 minutes in both exits were almost camped constantly by either an APC or Infantry squad.

100% agreement, that camping was totally bullshit and I was very upset about that too. After I pointed it out in allchat I was able to leave the mainbase for the rest of the round though, as well as the rest of my squad. I cant give an exact timer, but I think the mainbase was camped for a good 30 minutes.

How was it possible that they camped it for 30 minutes, when counting in that they are A) Experienced players B ) playing on NEW a lot C) have administrators in their own squads. Isn't this a little bit dubious to see players that have already been given a favor doing this?

BLUFOR switching
According to NEW server admins 3rdAC requested to be switched to the Canadian side.

Our Admins decided that no switching was necessary, the 3dac switch to Blue was talked through before the game started. I explained that 5 times on TS to you and quite a few times in allchat. Keep in mind, that I am no Admin (see the [new] for member and the [NEW]for admin)


Yes it was talked trough, however in their decision making I believe they underestimated the impact of skilled people on this lay-out. I want to ask whether they see this problem as well, that the switching of 3rdAC only made things worse for the game, not better.

Next Map

I'd like to point out that Beirut was a lot of fun and balanced imho.

It turned out that way against all odds, however, I think that you should also allow the people that have not been complaining to have a proper rape round. This way you even things out. Now only one group has had a whole fun night, the other group has been frustrated for 2 1/2 hours. At least reward their patience next time please.

The admins told me that balancing mid-round was impossible.

I say again, I am no admin on NEW.

I would like to hear an admins word on this. I already had a word from one admin, but that one was actually benefiting from the actions of the administrators, he basically in an easy position.

[fecht_niko]

Thanks for kicking Frontliner and me...

Normally we don't switch to Blufor but here my reasons in a timeline:

1. Shikotan AAS was voted and we played it 5min before the server crashed. (the INF layout is not smart btw)

2. Instead of playing Shikotan again we had a mapvote: Shikotan and Archer

3. Why do you want to play this broken map? No fun for Opfor... If you want to practise use the training server...

4. Layout with 3 APCs. We discussed so many times that we should play INF layout... And especially on unbalanced maps, but no one cares...

5. After switching most of the quality players to Blufor (we played with them the last rounds in a squad...) Front and me decided also to switch over because we play this game in order to have fun and not being again (I told you this 1000 times) in a rapefest. And instead of !w or switching back or what ever you kicked...

All in all the quality of admins especially for map decision and balancing decreased and the sad thing is that you got so much input on this issues here from experienced people, but no one cares.

Niko

[Ranzpirat]

1. Shikotan AAS was voted and we played it 5min before the server crashed. (the INF layout is not smart btw)

We simply did not know that the INF layout was just 150-250. Nonetheless we found it quite interesting with the cqc in the city and tunnels.

2. Instead of playing Shikotan again we had a mapvote: Shikotan and Archer

Ofcourse, because Archer was voted next while playing shikotan and we did not wanted to decide on ourself if we replay or gonext.

[...]If you want to practise use the training server...

We are not talking about practise like in learning how to fly trans. We are talking about playing the game to find new (or old?) ways in a mapmode that is receiving a lot of hate since the last patches.

4. Layout with 3 APCs. [...]

This Layout is still playable in my Opinion. OPfor are able to handle 3 APC's if they manage to teamwork and ambush. Ofc, because we failed to do so, 3 freely ranging APC's are kinda brutal.

5. After switching most of the quality players to Blufor [...] Front and me decided also to switch over[...]

So instead of staying with the inferior team to even the odds you decided to make it even more unbalanced? Smart move...

All in all the quality of admins especially for map decision and balancing decreased and the sad thing is that you got so much input on this issues here from experienced people, but no one cares.

We care and you may have noticed that we are playing a lot of INF layout on ins maps and normal aas in the last months.

I absolutely dont get why there is such an eruption after playing a map like this one or two times a week.

Plus, I can just chant it over and over: Clans, Communitys, Teams: When you join mid-round and see that the match is kinda hard on one of the teams TAKE THE INITIATIVE AND SWITCH, maybe ask in allchat if the admins are okay with it, but do it sometimes.

Yesterday there was only 2 NEW online after blackfish_ left to get something to eat and all the reports, gameplay and lateafternoon (tuesday is a workday dear people) can get at you. Admins are people too.


On an unrelated note: I still want to know which APC camped mainbase entrance in B1. Because I stood there and I got shot at and I am pretty certain I did not hallucinate this.

[[KSK]Ghostfool]

This Layout is still playable in my Opinion. OPfor are able to handle 3 APC's if they manage to teamwork and ambush.

I heard this quite often in the discussion on realitymod, but reality is that on maps or layers like this a bad Bluefor can easily win vs a mediocre opfor. Why not even play it from time to time? Because its a matter of the side you chose if you have 2 hours fun or not. So we should avoid such maps except the Opfor is the stacked team... but usually its not.
INF layers are a good compromise and they lead to better Teamwork on both sides from my opinion, we had this discussion a while ago...

Sometimes i wonder when i see Maps in the vote like Ghost Train or Hades Peak... there should be a Sticky wich Maps have serious problems, so admins dont set them.

[blackfish_]

Truth be told, it was mainly my fault since i set the map/layer because i was on the assumption that we (OPFOR) could deal with 2 APCs - apparently there were 3 (bad memory i guess - in both ways). They were pretty well coordinated and managed to take control over a large area by placing their APCs at basically opposite spots - partly backing up each other this way. Even so we got unlucky with our first Cache spawns our team was to focused on these areas and failed to fight over the general map control to put some pressure on the APCs - guess our deployment was really bad. But while we (OPFOR) were already struggling to find our way back into the game some of the BLUFOR team even decided to resort to lamer tactics by farming kills next to the taliban mainbase - never seen an APC in C1 before.

Not to mention the stacked BLUFOR team which was mainly the fault of us (NEW) since we decided at round start that it was okay if 3dac switched to BLUFOR while we all go OPFOR - guess we overestimated us and it should have been the other way around.

All in all i guess we won't play this layer anytime soon again.

EDIT: Thanks for all the feedback and input, keep it up! - but don't get too worked up, it's still just a game.

[Rage]

Hey Pronk,

thanks for your feedback!

Lets go over it step by step:

Operation Archer - Alternative Lay Out

The 3 APCs are a big advantage for the blufor and in the right hands with even a med-skilled team, plus no one on opfor side who knows how to handle RPGs, the SPG-Techie in the right hands or no one never heard about a ambushs, it will be most likely a win for the Canadians. The layer is definitely in favor to the Opfor.

Exit Camping

Thats a no-go should had been reported as often as it takes UNTIL this problem had been solved.
I mean if you have a cache close to the taliban main its hard to say if they are cutting the supplys and supporting their inf but if thats not the case the APCs have nothing to do there! Thats GreyZone bullshit im sick about!
Every admin has and will react to this!

BLUFOR switching

I wasn't there and i don't know how the balance of the round was before but yes i agree with you that one should have considered the switching of strong clans and the diffrence of Opfor/Blufor advantages.

3rdAC is free to request, however I feel like the administrators of the server have been ignoring the importance of a proper match over the needs of giving others a favor.

Believe me this was absolutely not his intention! We are making effort to keep up the balance all the time which is really not easy thing to do considering the diffrent layers, intrests, ragequits, blackwholes, disconnects and ctds or just clans leaving. 3rdAC are our partners and like all the other clans on our switchlist agreed to watch the balance its not like they can switch whenever they want to thats something you got totally wrong. Of course one should as already said considered the Opfor/Blufor advantages and the strength of the clan and should had switched another clan or volunteers but since the next round was even after KSK switched it was more a Maplayer thing although KSK is a strong Clan of course! ;)


Next Map

36 - 0 Beirut ...without words mate!

Mid-Round Balancing

The admins told me that balancing mid-round was impossible.

We only force balance if we have a big player amount diffrence mid-round and the server is about to die because the other team is "fleeing".

If its the beginning of the round we will forcebalance aswell but only before we asked the clan or players to switch vountarily and if no one is switching we take actions! But as already said since they are on the switchlist they agreed to watch the balance and should switch voluntarily.

Just ask yourself, do you want to be switch with you sqd in the middle of the round after you have been fighting with this team?

Of course if a new clan is joining mid-round they will be balanced as well! Btw if we see players or clans beeing on our switchlist, joining the game and switching to the raping side they wont be much longer on this list for sure! Trust me!



Conclusion

Yet after a small discussion on teamspeak, the admins believed that they had not made a mistake. I feel screwed over by this. They have made a mistake by combining little mistakes.

Maybe they had, as far as i can see one should have clarified if there had been volunteers who wanted to switch to opfor before switching the Ducks but thats easy to say now for me since you always know better after it happended. But seriously there was as far as i know 1 admin active at the moment handling the server on its own, little mistakes can happen its only a real one if you dont learn something from that.

Now to your beahviour:

This caused me to flame for the whole round, since from the beginning of the round it was clear that the Canadians would win.

The whole thing doesnt excuse such behaviour in that moment. I can understand your anger but it only leads to chaos even if you are maybe right in some points! If i was on the server and someone is flamming all the time i would remove him right away thats just not the place to disuss things!

Thats why i appreciate that you came here and posted some feedback and some construcive criticism. I really do and thats the way it works! We will take that in account in future handling the balance.

One last thing lately people are starting to rage in the second something goes wrong or the team is unbalanced or some other bullshit instead of just saying one time ok lets bite the bullet, lets get through this and dont just give up right away even if the favor isnt on your side!

I mean seriously think about it how many rounds do we play unbalanced on NEW? You play 3 maybe 4 rounds an evening 3 are balanced 1 is epci and then one day comes a steamroll and all the other rounds are forgotten and there are all these mistakes and these bad admins! The really good and enjoayble rounds already played are faded out! Think about it! Bright side and so on...

Cheers Rage

[B.Pronk]

I would have bitten the bullet if the problem came out of nowhere. However the issue was already pretty clear at the beginning of the round. Even on Burning Sands I reported that the Alternative lay-out is one sided. I know what I am talking about, and I even gave the admin team the information why they could have chosen another layer. Yet it got ignored, I hope next time the information being provided gets take more serious than this time.

About the SPG, IED stuff, I don't want to sound cocky. But I quite know how to use it, like a few others on our team. But because of all the advantages of mobility, firepower,technology and skill (!) being given to the BLUFOR there was no chance of properly implementing it. Not to mention the good things that got taken away since 1.0 on Operation Archer.

My behavior. Looking back it was't right what I did and I cannot justify it. However I am sure you can understand that a player that loves a proper match and isn't having a lot as of lately despite his efforts will get frustrated at some time.

A solution to the problems mentioned in this topic is to A) not play this (and certain other) layers and have a balance in favor of OPFOR. More clan people on the OPFOR side in order to compensate.